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Post by sj on Sept 26, 2009 10:42:46 GMT -5
I think that for the playoffs and down the stretch, the injury sliders should be lowered to -100 for both frequency and severity. It just seems like too many players get hurt in this vital period, especially for retro leagues.
Owner-managers don't have nearly enough control over their players to help avoid these problems or make key substitutions. They're at the mercy of the AI to decide when or if to rest or pull a player, and once a player gets hurt the AI makes it own bad decision about who to substitute.
I'm making this suggestion for both 2k10 leagues I play in.
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Post by Scott on Sept 26, 2009 16:17:07 GMT -5
I would be interested to hear what the rest of the league thinks about this.
I mean we already have it set at -50% on both frequency and severity. I don't want to completely take injuries out of the equation, because that is always a possibility in real life as well and helps with unpredictability to the game.
I can however see the point about not really having the ability to substitute ourselves because we don't have very good control over our teams since we sim two weeks at a time. However, in the playoffs owners do have the abilitiy to substitute because we play the games over netmeeting.
I have no strong feeling one way or the other, so I would be interested to hear what others think.
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Post by boobiegibson4three on Sept 26, 2009 16:58:29 GMT -5
no....right now we have too few injuries imo. i have never lost a guy for more than 3 weeks, and that is unrealistic. it sucks when you lose a centerfielder and firstbaseman plays in that position, but it happens to all so its equal
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Post by Exposgm on Sept 26, 2009 17:59:06 GMT -5
no....right now we have too few injuries I'm not sure the 1979 White Sox would agree that we have too few injuries. Their season was marked by injuries to several players. Keep in mind that we are working with equalized medical systems, with every team being at A+. Despite that fact, there are many injuries occuring league-wide, and we have the injuries set at -50%! We don't have as much depth as MLB teams when it comes to replacements. The average bench player isn't exactly starting material right now. Having more injuries? Not sure. We can play on the "Injury severity" as well, although that would be a dangerous tool. We have had careers broken by injuries before, and it needs not to be a long injury to destroy a player. It's hard to make things "more realistic" when the game itself (Mogul) isn't realistic to begin with. After all, the thread wasn't really started concerning injuries during the regular season, but come playoffs time. I always thought injuries were part of the game, and not really sure there is a reason why there should be less come October ball. But other than that, I don't really have an opinion on the subject.
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Post by marmol on Sept 26, 2009 18:46:53 GMT -5
Although I am sure its random enough, the last two years my playoff hopes have been squashed by injuries(no real chance in '79 but '78 their was hope). Not just little ones but ones where my best players were dropping like flies. Losing Wilson in '78 in the last week of the season was crushing. I understand that they are all not real high ranked in health but Wilson (in the eighties) shouldn't miss two stints in a year more than 15 games while my left fielder with health in the 70's misses almost no time... If everyone has these kind of injuries happen thats one thing, but I have seen alot of long term injuries the last two years..... I agree that very few benches can actually sub in starter type players for long term injury replacement, the player pool isnt that vast.
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Post by boobiegibson4three on Sept 27, 2009 2:21:49 GMT -5
it happens...injuries should be a part of the game, thats why the best teams have excellent benches..................................
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Post by Exposgm on Sept 27, 2009 5:50:15 GMT -5
it happens...injuries should be a part of the game, thats why the best teams have excellent benches.................................. Sure, but to take decisions about the league, we have to take in consideration the average team or the average bench players. As a whole, an excellent bench remains an exception. And if every team decided to upgrade its bench so it became better and even excellent, we wouldn't have enough quality players to accomplish that.
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Post by San Diego Padres on Sept 27, 2009 6:53:46 GMT -5
I think we should leave it alone. Injuries happen and more experienced owners are prepared. I think that it is advantage that the experienced owner should retain and others need to earn. We already have level fields in Medical and Farm systems, that should be enough. If we lower injuries to -100% it also could change the way players are drafted. Currently a player who looks great but has a 55 health rating might move down the draft, if we change it is he any differant than an 80 or an 85? Let's leave it alone, we are all playing by the same rules so what does it really matter?
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Post by Scott on Sept 27, 2009 9:22:25 GMT -5
I think we should leave it alone. Injuries happen and more experienced owners are prepared. I think that it is advantage that the experienced owner should retain and others need to earn. We already have level fields in Medical and Farm systems, that should be enough. If we lower injuries to -100% it also could change the way players are drafted. Currently a player who looks great but has a 55 health rating might move down the draft, if we change it is he any differant than an 80 or an 85? Let's leave it alone, we are all playing by the same rules so what does it really matter? That is a great point.
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Post by johnnyboy on Sept 27, 2009 10:14:46 GMT -5
I agree with Paul.
The bench players (mostly in the AL du to the DH rules) will lost of their importance if the odds of injuries are reduced.
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Post by sj on Sept 27, 2009 10:48:36 GMT -5
Seems like a couple of folks might be missing the fact that I'm talking about the stretch run and playoffs, not the entire season.
The stretch in this league would start around September 15th. and there are three situations that a contender might be in by that date.
-They have it locked -It's roughly 75/25 win-lose -They're still in hot competition
In the first two situations, and occasionally in the third, a real manager is going to selectively rest his players. Not two weeks worth, a day off here and a few innings there especially against a bad team or with a good lead.
We can't do that.
Our players are either in the lineup or out of the lineup for the entire sim.
Come playoff time, guys with minor injuries would often still play.
Not the mostly dramatic BBM type injuries, but the real injuries that players usually suffer in real play.
In BBM, every injury might as well be a broke leg because the player is dead for a fixed period of time. He can't pitch a single inning, can't have a single AB.
Joe mentioned that it's usually key players that get hurt, and he's right. It's uncommon for a bad player or one having an off season to get injured. It happens, but mostly it's a .290+ hitter or 3.25- pitcher.
The biggest weakness we have is these two week sims. If a #6 - #8 or 9 hitter gets hurt, the AI probably won't screw the team too badly.
But if a leadoff hitter gets replaced with a career .220 bencher, or a 30 HR hitter in the 3 - 5 spots gets replaced with a guy that has 72 power, the lineup strategy is destroyed for the entire sim period and there's nothing that any owner, smart or not, can do about it.
Sorry for the overly long post.
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Post by boobiegibson4three on Sept 27, 2009 15:51:01 GMT -5
injuries happen in real life even during playoff strectes. I dont want to lose out to a team with starters that have low health ratings, and also dont have any bench players.
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Post by sj on Sept 27, 2009 20:40:03 GMT -5
injuries happen in real life even during playoff strectes. I dont want to lose out to a team with starters that have low health ratings, and also dont have any bench players. I see. So you're saying you want to keep injuries unchanged because you hope a team that's beating you will get injuries that let you win. Interesting perspective.
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Post by boobiegibson4three on Sept 27, 2009 22:08:36 GMT -5
yeah, b/c i have a deeper team, and have planned for injuries. I also set my strategy to sub a lot and keep my guys fresh. So in the long run i think a team will all low health ratings and no bench should face tough stretches where they have some guys get hurt, even if its the last two weeks of the season.
if i knew injuries could not happen during the most important time, then guys i would want guys like griffey when he came to the reds and vlad as an angel, b/c there awesome players but were injury prone, but in your case they cant get hurt.
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Post by sj on Sept 28, 2009 13:11:15 GMT -5
That's funny. I have the complete opposite view. If a team I beat has suffered key injuries, I feel like my victory is cheap. As though there should be a Roger Marris type asterisk next to my team name in the record books.
For many owners in this league, creating a deep team is another cheap victory. All it takes is for them to keep making horrible trade offers until they find a sucker that agrees.
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Post by Mosko on Sept 28, 2009 15:28:57 GMT -5
I don't think that there's anything special about injuries that happen to occur during the stretch drive. A key injury that occurs in April that causes your team to lose more than a normal number of games is no different than the same injury in September. A loss is a loss whether it happens in April or September. So I would not be in favor of adjusting the injury setting for just part of each season.
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Post by sj on Sept 28, 2009 15:39:13 GMT -5
I don't think that there's anything special about injuries that happen to occur during the stretch drive. A key injury that occurs in April that causes your team to lose more than a normal number of games is no different than the same injury in September. What's different is that managers take advantage of the extended roster to rest key players down the stretch when they aren't vitally needed. As I've said before, it might be a game or two, and it might be a few innings in games where they have a good lead. Remember that this version introduced the concepts of Tired and Fatigued. We have give days off set to always, yet I still see lots of players marked as Tired by late August to September, which I think is when it happens the most. That's another difference.
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Post by boobiegibson4three on Sept 28, 2009 16:11:27 GMT -5
you need to change your strategies to allow pinch running, pinch hitter, and defensive replacements up. Also go with 9 pitchers and an extra bench player. That might help on the tired part late in the season.
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Post by boobiegibson4three on Sept 28, 2009 16:13:42 GMT -5
BTW a team ahead me getting an injured player is not a cheap way to win, i strategize to make sure my best players are not injury prone. I also make sure to have a guys that can switch positions and can cover an injury or two.
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Post by San Diego Padres on Sept 28, 2009 17:29:18 GMT -5
First of all..........unless we start simming 1 day at a time there is no easy solution to the problem, if a problem exists at all. I'm not convinced. Besides, the playoffs should be left out of this conversation, as each owner has the ability to substitute as injuries occur.
If I understand Rand correctly, when a player shows "tired" or "fatigued" he is more likely to be injured. Seems to me that is the way it should be.
Having been a Red Sox fan my whole life I have heard time and time again that winning games in April is not as important as winning games in September (Yankee fans love to toss that out...no offense Rich). But no matter how hard I look at the standings I cannot tell the differance between games won in April and those won in September.
To me it seems we all stand the same risk of having an injured player and having the AI screw with our lineup, I just don't think it happens enough to remove injuries from part of the season and not others. That just doesn't make any sense to me.
Maybe we should have smaller sim windows of less than 1/2 month. I don't think many people would like that either.
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Post by bsager on Sept 28, 2009 17:43:53 GMT -5
"But no matter how hard I look at the standings I cannot tell the differance between games won in April and those won in September.
To me it seems we all stand the same risk of having an injured player and having the AI screw with our lineup, I just don't think it happens enough to remove injuries from part of the season and not others."
- That is a great point.
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Post by Scott on Sept 29, 2009 18:27:24 GMT -5
I think that on this topic, we are going to go ahead and leave things the way they are for now.
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